* Login   * Register
It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:13 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics



All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic


 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:42 pm 
Offline
Nomarch
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 2446
Location: Casterly Rock
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Another aspect of this story is how fucking obvious it is that companies like EA pay off review sites. This game came out with a relatively high "professional" review, and then the majority of the consumers who were ripped off by it give exactly the opposite review. All of this shilling in the game industry has reached really a disgusting and cynical state of affairs.

Can you be caertain its the majority? Or just a loud minority? Besides I've seen networks like g4 bring developers on their shows for interviews and to promote their game. When the game actually comes out they will often savage that very same game.

_________________
Here me roar! - Words of House Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:44 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
Cicero1 wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Another aspect of this story is how fucking obvious it is that companies like EA pay off review sites. This game came out with a relatively high "professional" review, and then the majority of the consumers who were ripped off by it give exactly the opposite review. All of this shilling in the game industry has reached really a disgusting and cynical state of affairs.

Can you be caertain its the majority? Or just a loud minority? Besides I've seen networks like g4 bring developers on their shows for interviews and to promote their game. When the game actually comes out they will often savage that very same game.



http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mass-effect-3


Please explain that.

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline
Nomarch
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:45 pm
Posts: 1487
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hell hath no fury like a Doc scorned...

_________________
The above information is fictional, any reference to individuals either living or dead is purely coincidental, and any facts presented should be scrutinized with extreme prejudice.

Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking. - John Maynard Keynes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:51 pm 
Offline
Nomarch
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 2446
Location: Casterly Rock
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Cicero1 wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Another aspect of this story is how fucking obvious it is that companies like EA pay off review sites. This game came out with a relatively high "professional" review, and then the majority of the consumers who were ripped off by it give exactly the opposite review. All of this shilling in the game industry has reached really a disgusting and cynical state of affairs.

Can you be caertain its the majority? Or just a loud minority? Besides I've seen networks like g4 bring developers on their shows for interviews and to promote their game. When the game actually comes out they will often savage that very same game.



http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mass-effect-3


Please explain that.

that can still be attributed to a very vocal minority, but like I said when you consider the entire body of work it is still impressive. That is probably what the review sites have done, thats what I did. I dont think its fair to look at this game as a standalone. Could they have done better with the ending, sure, i could have used more closure. However, I'm not going to trash what is really a magnificent trilogy.

_________________
Here me roar! - Words of House Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:07 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
No, it actually cannot be explained by an extremely vocal minority. Those numbers are huge. It's a statistically significant deviance that outright proves that either professional reviewers are terribly inept, or they are paid to shill.

If you don't believe those numbers, look at Amazon ratings. The fact of the matter is that the ONLY way you can judge the merit of a game today is about a month after the release, based upon user reviews. Most everything else is bought and paid for by companies like EA. Even the user reviews are facing problems with fake reviews. A lot of academic researchers spend a great deal of time developing algorithms to filter out bogus reviews.

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:10 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
Benkei wrote:
Hell hath no fury like a Doc scorned...



It's not just that I personally feel insulted by this. It's that people paid a lot of money for this game, and it is a complete insult to all those peoples' work and time spent to purchase the game. They take people for granted, Benkei, and then they tell them to shove it when those people demand they get the quality they paid for. Do you honestly think $60 is a pittance for the majority of the people who purchase these games? That game is not worth $60. On top of that, they didn't even deliver a complete game. You have to pay them ANOTHER $10 to unlock a key character in the MAIN PLOT. Now to fix this they plan to sell yet another DLC? It's insulting. They deserve to go down in flames like this. It's good for consumers and it's good for developers as well. No more bullshit. Do your jobs and deliver what you promise. Stop taking your customers -- and their money -- for granted.

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 pm 
Offline
Satrap
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:43 pm
Posts: 2757
Location: New Zealand
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Another aspect of this story is how fucking obvious it is that companies like EA pay off review sites. This game came out with a relatively high "professional" review, and then the majority of the consumers who were ripped off by it give exactly the opposite review. All of this shilling in the game industry has reached really a disgusting and cynical state of affairs.


Doc i agree 100%, it does seem weird how well known video game review websites heap the praise on games published by the big companies


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:32 pm 
Offline
Hetairoi
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 7303
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
At this point if Bioware is going to fix the ending they can't charge for it or it will be seen as every bit the dirty move that DSL suggests it would be. Hell if they fix it and don't charge they will still probably lose reputation wise because people will think they were going to originally charge for it before the fan backlash. They sure put themselves in between a rock and a hard place.

@ DSL - Oh please DSL game sites aren't paid off to give good reviews just because they disagree with you or the general public on a game score. Those user reviews are skewed by butthurt consumers who give the game as low a score possible even though it's still a quality game minus the ending. If the reviewers are giving it high scores it's because it's a good game despite it's obvious flaws.

Personally I think most of the reviews from reputable game review sites for Mass Effect 3 seem fair. Most of them have the game from 80 to 90 out of 100, so it's not like this is going to be in GOTY discussions or anything.

@ Cicero1 - Also the whole point of a game review is to view every game on it's own merits within the context of the time the game released to arrive at the fairest possible score. You can't give Mass Effect 3 credit for how good the rest of the franchise was because that would lead to screwed up scoring system where crappy sequels would get higher scores than their quality would entail and new franchises would get skewed with lower scores compared to game quality.

Thus you could have the first game in a new ip score a 8.0 and be better than a long running sequel that gets a 9.0 with the help of heavy nostalgia points. That would not be very informative to people reading video game reviews.

_________________
*yip*


Last edited by StCapps on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:57 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
Yes, it is quite clear the reviews are paid off. It's simple statistics. The deviation between the distribution of critics scores and the distribution of user ratings is quite clear. Did any of you even take basic statistics in college? Seriously? It's obvious that these two groups differ. If this were something like a passive medium, like film, I can accept the argument that the majority of people may not appreciate something that is overly sophisticated, but that argument is meaningless here. It is a consumer game. The critic reviews *should* be inline with user ratings, with a less than significant deviation.

Do I really need to explicitly work the math out for your rubes?

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:03 pm 
Offline
Hetairoi
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 7303
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Yes, it is quite clear the reviews are paid off. It's simple statistics. The deviation between the distribution of critics scores and the distribution of user ratings is quite clear. Did any of you even take basic statistics in college? Seriously? It's obvious that these two groups differ. If this were something like a passive medium, like film, I can accept the argument that the majority of people may not appreciate something that is overly sophisticated, but that argument is meaningless here. It is a consumer game. The critic reviews *should* be inline with user ratings, with a less than significant deviation.

Do I really need to explicitly work the math out for your rubes?
Dude a bunch of butthurt children are getting on metacritc and giving Mass Effect a 1.0 because they are butthurt about the ending. That is what is causing the deviance and considering the consumer uproar it's not at all shocking to see. Just because a bunch of whiny internet bitches give Mass Effect 3 a 1.0 doesn't mean the game actually deserves that score by any stretch of the imagination.

This isn't "Big Rigs Over The Road Racing" here. You want to see a bad game, behold:

Now that game deserves all the 1.0 scores the world can muster. How was this even a game that was made? Who on the planet thought this game would make money or be even kind of "good"? Who?

_________________
*yip*


Last edited by StCapps on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:07 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
Then explain the deviation between professional critic reviews and the user score on Amazon, or any other major user rating generator.

The statistics are quite clear. I realize that kids living in their mother's basement, or working class rubes with less than a community college education, might not be capable of working out standard deviation, but that doesn't account for reality. The deviation is too far to be dismissed as anything insignificant. The numbers of raters and the consistency of ratings is quite clear.


The onus is upon you rubes to explain away why user reviews statistically deviate from the allegedly impartial critic reviews by a large statistical significance. "A small group of pissed off fans" does not account for it. Sorry. That's the definition of statistical insignificance. Unless a "small group of pissed off fans" means "the majority of people who purchased this product". That would make sense.

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:13 pm 
Offline
Hetairoi
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 9732
Location: Dragonstone, Iowa
Metacritic, and gamespot especially, are in the pockets of major video game companies. This has been pretty well known for a couple years now.

http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/14/metacri ... practices/

Edit: This isn't to say anything about Mass effect 3...I haven't played the game, and I don't know about the ending.

_________________
"No man grows rich by kindness."-Jorah Mormont

"True heroism is you, alone, in a designated workspace. True heroism is minutes, hours, days, year upon year of the quiet, precise, judicious exercise of probity and care, with no one there to see or cheer." The Pale King, by D. F. Wallace.


Last edited by Waleis on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:13 pm 
Offline
Hetairoi
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 7303
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Then explain the deviation between professional critic reviews and the user score on Amazon, or any other major user rating generator.

The statistics are quite clear. I realize that kids living in their mother's basement, or working class rubes with less than a community college education, might not be capable of working out standard deviation, but that doesn't account for reality. The deviation is too far to be dismissed as anything insignificant. The numbers of raters and the consistency of ratings is quite clear.
The consistency of the butthurt is quite high right now. Over the next few months expect those users scores to jump significantly. 10 people scoring the game 1.0 weigh a lot more heavily than someone who was genuinely disappointed by the ending but still gave the game it's due with an 8 out of 10. Right now in release of highly controversial and popular game the flood of people make the skew extra prominent in this case.

I remember back when Halo 2 came out that the user ratings were low for a while because of minor backlash over it's ending as well. Wasn't quite as bad this Mass Effect 3 backlash but the industry has grown considerably. I'm not shocked by the boneheads dragging the score down.

_________________
*yip*


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:18 pm 
Offline
Hetairoi
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 7303
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Waleis wrote:
Metacritic, and gamespot especially, are in the pockets of major video game companies. This has been pretty well known for a couple years now.

http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/14/metacri ... practices/
Gamespot is not in pockets of game companies and never were. Bad management fired Jeff because they got spooked that some advertisers pulled money. The problem has since been fixed and the guys at giantbomb even signed a business deal with CBS Interactive (who own gamespot) despite knowing the history oh so well up front. Gamespot editorial was never dirty it was simply bad management post Greg Kasavin's departure.

If you want to hear the full story behind the firing of Jeff Gerstmann he recently explained the whole thing in this video after being forced to stay publicly silent about it for nearly 5 years:

_________________
*yip*


Last edited by StCapps on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:19 pm 
Offline
Archon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 35415
Fucking hell you people can be thick.

Maybe you guys can learn something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson's_chi-squared_test

Wait, who am I kidding. :facepalm:

_________________
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  


Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


Home l Common Sense l Hardcore History l Donate l Community l Merchandise l Blog l About Us