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 Post subject: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:59 pm 
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The newest CEO of Mozilla was forced to leave his job because of his support of Proposition 8 in California. The fact is that homosexuals and their supporters have created a culture where Christians, Jews, and Muslims can be denied employment, fired, and otherwise penalized because they refuse to support the homosexual lifestyle agenda. It seems to utterly escape these people that they have become the biggest perpetrators of discrimination in this country all in the name for.. what, exactly? It's not tolerance because homosexuals are certainly tolerated. It's apparently because everybody has to agree that their lifestyle is not immoral, or face economic and legal ruin, which is the opposite of tolerance: intolerance of others.

http://www.cnet.com/news/eich-confirms- ... m-mozilla/



This behavior is going to create a major backlash against them. It would be nice if hate was not the go-to strategy of the homosexual movement.


The lesson is clear to people of traditional values and members of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam: you better stay closeted or these people will try to ruin your life.

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:48 pm 
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I agree with you for the most part.

But I think where I want to take the debate is beyond "liberals do this, conservatives do this, etc" that I think this is something nobody in history has ever addressed.

Which is that I think the real problem is absolute concepts of right and wrong. People think of gay rights with a almost religous zeal. Now I think something like not killing someone because they are gay or beating them up because they are gay should be a universal right. But when we get to the nitty gritty which all SJW (social justice warriors) devolve to (calling someone a pansy is homophobic, sissy is homophobic) or in this case the CEO contributing to a law they don't agree with (I think even "anti-gay" is a loaded phrase) I think that's a great example of how people in every era think they are 100% right.

For example people in a previous era thought Christianity was the absolute most important thing in the world, the absolute salvation of someone's eternal soul. If someone's eternal well being was on the line wouldn't you kinda be pushy when it comes to conversion and baptism?

Someone in another board made a good point. Civil rights seems to be constantly pushing boundaries. I see tons of stuff on social media for transgender rights. Now I'm not against transgenders, I'm pretty much ok with anything as long as you're not hurting anyone, but my point is these community standards keep pushing the boundaries.

Now liberals HATE this argument because they think it equates homosexuality with this, but I'm not comparing the two but just as a argument. What if in the future something like pedophilia or bestiality is advocated like homosexuality is or trandgenderism is?

Again, I'm not equating the two, but just for a philosophical exercise. Remember, our ancestors were just as horrified by homosexuality as pedophilia (actually I think by our standards they were pedophiles considering how young they got married...) I'm not arguing the slipper slope argument, where if we embrace homosexuality then pedophilia is next. What I am saying is moral relativity, like why is eating dog not ok, but eating cow is? I believe Hindus see the cow as a sacred animal and would be as disgusted with eating cow as westerners are with dog.

I'm just saying, we're talking about homosexuality and tolerance for as a universal law. And I'm not talking about violence against, I'm not saying anyone should be free to beat anyone up, but when we get to something like "you can't even say you support a law that legalizes gay marriage of you going to be cyber tarred and feathered and blacklisted we're entering that grey area between free speech and supposed threat of hate speech.

What if 300 years from now, a 25 year man marrying any girl that has reached the early stages of puberty is ok? And anyone speaking out against is tagged with the buzzword label "anti-child love". Yes it sounds ridiculous, but that's the point. Every generation is offended by the next generation and so on and so on. There's a clear pattern. Pedophilia may be a bad example but you can bet that something our descendents do will DISGUST US.

And if liberals were ok with everything I think they would be consistent. But they are highly selective of what is ok and what is their version of deviancy. Homosexuality? Ok. Porn? Degrading to women. Gay porn? Oh well that's not degrading at all!


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:36 am 
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Why don't you buy Mozilla stock in protest and live off of the dividends?

Or convince Hobby Lobby to buy Mozilla?

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:49 am 
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Dr. Strangelove wrote:

This behavior is going to create a major backlash against them. It would be nice if hate was not the go-to strategy of the homosexual movement.


The lesson is clear to people of traditional values and members of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam: you better stay closeted or these people will try to ruin your life.


Don't be upset Doc, the pupil has just learned well from the master. Am sure they don't hate you personally just your sinful ways/beliefs. They are just trying to honestly educate you so that you can choose to live a better life.

@Jebei, the way humanity seems to be going I reckon it's more likely they will think we are the pedo ones. The more we can manage to extend our lives the longer childhood will be and thus in the future it may seem weird that 25 year olds were getting married and having kids. You are a 20's mom oh wow....erm that's great....I guess.

Also you are probably watching the wrong gay porn if you don't think some of it is degrading. :altwink:


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:30 am 
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"the homosexual lifestyle agenda" otherwise known to most enlightened people simply as "human rights".


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:31 am 
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As long as the private companies keep folding to pressure the purge will continue. Proud day in America when people are losing their jobs and being denied educations for their political and personal opinions.

Can't see that possibly backfiring.

:facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:35 am 
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Actually, it looks like you can fire people for their political beliefs. It happened to a guy who was a militant socialist:

Quote:
"The law is pretty clear that a private employer can fire someone based on their political speech even when that political speech does not affect the terms and conditions of employment."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2002/07/can_your_boss_fire_you_for_your_political_beliefs.html


So . . . firing someone for being a republican/democrat -ok.

Awesome.
:facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:40 am 
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imperfectionst wrote:
"the homosexual lifestyle agenda" otherwise known to most enlightened people simply as "human rights".


Why you gotta be so hateful? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:23 am 
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DBTrek wrote:
As long as the private companies keep folding to pressure the purge will continue. Proud day in America when people are losing their jobs and being denied educations for their political and personal opinions.

Can't see that possibly backfiring.

:facepalm:


Even Andrew Sullivan (!) is disgusted.

Quote:
GLEICHSCHALTUNG! Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich forced to resign for supporting traditional marriage laws. To be clear, for holding, in 2009, the view of gay marriage that Barack Obama held, instead of the view that Dick Cheney held.

As someone who was publicly supporting gay marriage even before Dick Cheney, I find this degree of bullying and blacklisting repellent. I’m beginning to think that the only thing the left found wrong with the 1950s blacklists was that they were aimed at . . . the left. And so I find myself in agreement with Andrew Sullivan:

Will he now be forced to walk through the streets in shame? Why not the stocks? The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society. If this is the gay rights movement today – hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else – then count me out. If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us.

Yeah, pretty much. Disgraceful.



Serious question:

When has the USA had a more fascistic atmosphere than today? :anyone:

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:41 am 
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Fife wrote:
Serious question:

When has the USA had a more fascistic atmosphere than today? :anyone:



(whets the index finger)

It matters little the direction of the wind, for there will always be wind with a hint of calm to suprise us all.

This is but a current manisfestation, it will eventually overstep it bounds and a new backlash will take it's place. And only in the media, for the average person doesn't have the time or inclination to weigh in but to take cues from what they see or hear.

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:58 am 
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Most people like me who I've spoken with (people who don't like equal legal rights being tied to consensual sexual behavior) are as uncomfortable as I am about hounding this guy from his job, regardless of our distaste for his views. Just as most of the Christians I know are uncomfortable being identified with the fundamentalist, religiocentric homophobes so many people mistakenly perceive as speaking for them.

But if by"fascism" we mean repression or stifling political dissent... I think I'd need to see anti- gay marriage people actually herded into internment camps, or systemically rooted out and blacklisted through official congressional hearings, or maybe legally identified as traitors through a Sedition Act, or I don't know, maybe legally enslaved en masse along with all their descendents, before I believed we've reached our pinnacle of fascism.


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:40 am 
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Quote:
Remember, our ancestors were just as horrified by homosexuality as pedophilia


You need to study more classics, if what you mean by "our" is western civilization. The Greek & Roman cultures were pretty immersed in both, with little horror. Contrary to some popular belief, morals are not a universal truth, but a reflection of the society.

The test for any of this debate should be "substitute BLACK". IF you can replace BLACK for GAY in your statement and it still sounds alright, then maybe it is. But I don't see problem with public hounding of someone who supports holding back rights from people because of their own biases.

It wasn't that long ago that interracial marriage was just as controversial and illegal in much of this country. If a CEO of a major company in the 1950's publicly supported a campaign for continuing the miscegenation laws, he would be a legitimate target. Many Americans thought miscegenation just as ungodly as they now do homosexuality, but that didn't make their viewpoint constitutional.


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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Fife wrote:
Even Andrew Sullivan (!) is disgusted.

Quote:
GLEICHSCHALTUNG! Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich forced to resign for supporting traditional marriage laws. To be clear, for holding, in 2009, the view of gay marriage that Barack Obama held, instead of the view that Dick Cheney held.

As someone who was publicly supporting gay marriage even before Dick Cheney, I find this degree of bullying and blacklisting repellent. I’m beginning to think that the only thing the left found wrong with the 1950s blacklists was that they were aimed at . . . the left. And so I find myself in agreement with Andrew Sullivan:

Will he now be forced to walk through the streets in shame? Why not the stocks? The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society. If this is the gay rights movement today – hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else – then count me out. If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us.


Looks like Andrew Sullivan is reading DSL's post:

Quote:
As I said last night, of course Mozilla has the right to purge a CEO because of his incorrect political views. Of course Eich was not stripped of his First Amendment rights. I’d fight till my last breath for Mozilla to retain that right. What I’m concerned with is the substantive reason for purging him. When people’s lives and careers are subject to litmus tests, and fired if they do not publicly renounce what may well be their sincere conviction, we have crossed a line. This is McCarthyism applied by civil actors. This is the definition of intolerance. If a socially conservative private entity fired someone because they discovered he had donated against Prop 8, how would you feel? It’s staggering to me that a minority long persecuted for holding unpopular views can now turn around and persecute others for the exact same reason. If we cannot live and work alongside people with whom we deeply disagree, we are finished as a liberal society.

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 Post subject: Re: Homosexual McCarthyism
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Looks like Andy is really getting riled up:

Quote:
Some of the very same people who have jumped up and down with delight as Brandon Eich lost his job will doubtless be backing Hillary Clinton for president in 2016 if she runs. The “Ready for Hillary” ranks are crowded with gay men – and good for them. But it’s worth US President Bill Clinton (l) in picture taken 16considering some consistency here. If it is unconscionable to support a company whose CEO once donated to the cause against marriage equality, why is it not unconscionable to support a candidate who opposed marriage equality as recently as 2008, and who was an integral part of an administration that embraced the Defense Of Marriage Act, signed into law by Bill Clinton? How do you weigh the relative impact of a president strongly backing DOMA – even running ads touting his support for it in the South – and an executive who spent $1000 for an anti-marriage equality Proposition?


I look forward to the "This is different!!!!" counter arguments he will undoubtedly receive.

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