Why politics is futile.

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Re: Why politics is futile.

Postby Inquizitr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:05 am

Well thanks, Boethius. I do have morals. They are not based on religion as I feel it has a bad track record of doing things I consider right. There is right and wrong, and I think it is wrong for people in power to tell you one thing, that you are free, meanwhile they surreptitiously undermine the value of the currency and eat away at personal freedom. They inflate investment bubbles and burst them to drink the blood of those unfortunate enough to be caught in the lurch. To believe that was acceptable behavior, even in a social Darwinian fashion, are wrong, and have no understanding what it means to have a society that values honesty. Fraud is wrong, no matter what guise you wrap it in.
To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. ~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Re: Why politics is futile.

Postby boethius » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 am

Inquizitr wrote:Well thanks, Boethius. I do have morals. They are not based on religion as I feel it has a bad track record of doing things I consider right.
When you find an institution run by fallible humans that does everything right, let me know. I'd love to join, if they'd have me.

There is right and wrong, and I think it is wrong for people in power to tell you one thing, that you are free, meanwhile they surreptitiously undermine the value of the currency and eat away at personal freedom. They inflate investment bubbles and burst them to drink the blood of those unfortunate enough to be caught in the lurch. To believe that was acceptable behavior, even in a social Darwinian fashion, are wrong, and have no understanding what it means to have a society that values honesty. Fraud is wrong, no matter what guise you wrap it in.

Well, I don't believe that's acceptable behavior, but I'm not a Social Darwinist. I believe that certain kindness and empathy for fellow man is required by my Creator, as well as, to be honest, culturally influenced on me as well as I wasn't raping and killing as an atheist either. However, atheism by itself, in a vacuum devoid of cultural influences against predation on your fellow man, neither prohibits nor commands such predation, but is, (no pun intended) agnostic on the issue.
"Boethius was the only user here to successfully piss me off IRL, and you'll notice it's been crickets from him for a while. I'm not saying he's dead now . . . but . . . :twisted:" -- DBTrek

"How about you just suck on a cyanide lollipop and spare us your fucking hyperbole you whining little nancy?" -- Cid

"If Dan had a lick of sense he'd have booted your pompous ass ages ago." - RAnthony
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Re: Why politics is futile.

Postby Inquizitr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:44 pm

I really don't want this to turn into another "religious morality versus human morality" contest. I don't believe religion is inherently moral, and if I remeber right, you don't think people can be moral without religion as their purpose.
If a person supports what the banks and industrialists, and thier political allies are doing, then defend it. If they don't, there really is nothing to say.
I reprinted the poem because I thought it was interesting. Perhaps you would prefer the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peX4dBEF0Vg
To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. ~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Re: Why politics is futile.

Postby boethius » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Inquizitr wrote:I really don't want this to turn into another "religious morality versus human morality" contest. I don't believe religion is inherently moral, and if I remeber right, you don't think people can be moral without religion as their purpose.

You don't remember right.

There is nothing about the atheist philosophy that compels morality. An atheist could end up like you (accepting as true your self-described morality) or like Nietzsche and neither would be incompatible with atheism.

I agree with most of the poem's sentiments, but for different reasons that you do.
"Boethius was the only user here to successfully piss me off IRL, and you'll notice it's been crickets from him for a while. I'm not saying he's dead now . . . but . . . :twisted:" -- DBTrek

"How about you just suck on a cyanide lollipop and spare us your fucking hyperbole you whining little nancy?" -- Cid

"If Dan had a lick of sense he'd have booted your pompous ass ages ago." - RAnthony
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Re: Why politics is futile.

Postby Inquizitr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:50 am

boethius wrote:
Inquizitr wrote:I really don't want this to turn into another "religious morality versus human morality" contest. I don't believe religion is inherently moral, and if I remeber right, you don't think people can be moral without religion as their purpose.

You don't remember right.

There is nothing about the atheist philosophy that compels morality. An atheist could end up like you (accepting as true your self-described morality) or like Nietzsche and neither would be incompatible with atheism.


But is coercion moral? And are those who only refrain from harming or exploiting others because of religious or state coercion really being moral, or just acting out of fear? Those with the power to do as they please, without fear of Gods or government, yet harm or exploit noone, they are the moral ones. Do you know anyone like that?
To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. ~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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