Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

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Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby General Buttnekked » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:37 am

Bill Moyers is Back!

http://billmoyers.com/episode/moving-beyond-war/


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“Are we so unimaginative, so wedded to the reliance on military means that we cannot conceive of any way to reconcile our differences with groups and nations in the Islamic world, and therefore bring this conflict to an end?” Bacevich tells Moyers.

Bacevich also answers the question of whether Iran is a direct threat to America with a definitive no. “Whatever threat Iran poses is very, very limited,” he tells Moyers, “and certainly does not constitute any kind of justification for yet another experiment with preventive war.”
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby podm » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:12 pm

Excellent listen. The man nailed it.
Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play - Heraclitus
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:07 pm

"What is the political objective of a strategy of targeted assassination, how many people are we going to kill?... How long are we going to kill people before we get to some point where we can say yes, our political purposes have been achieved and therefore the war can end?... and my fear is that that we will never, we will never run out of targets... permanent open ended war, in essence, is an abdication of strategic thought... Are we so unimaginative, so wedded to the reliance on military means that we cannot conceive of any way to reconcile our differences with groups and nations in the Islamic world, and therefore bring this conflict to an end?”

-Col. Bacevich
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby Waleis » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:52 pm

When Moyers suggested that our soldiers died for nothing, Bacevich reacted perfectly. Our soldiers don't choose the wars they fight. Their sacrifices are inherently meaningful, regardless of politics. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for him to answer questions like that, considering what happened to his son.
"No man grows rich by kindness."-Jorah Mormont

"True heroism is you, alone, in a designated workspace. True heroism is minutes, hours, days, year upon year of the quiet, precise, judicious exercise of probity and care, with no one there to see or cheer." The Pale King, by D. F. Wallace.
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:10 pm

It's true though. Canadians who died in the fruitless battle of Pahsmul, in Kandahar, are no different than Canadian soldiers who died in WWII. In the regiment, you don't make any distinction. The heroism and the valor are at the tactical level, the strategic level is for other concerns.

Dead is dead. Battlefield heroics is battlefield heroics. When WO Frank Mellish was killed trying to recover the body of his fallen friend WO Rick Nolan, at the "Battle of the White School House" in Afghanistan, I don't think; "Yeah, but we lost the war and we had no chance of winning"

Some of the most valorous acts are done in the middle of nowhere, in nothing wars...doesn't actually dim the valor of it at all.

Everybody remembers the Charge of the Light Brigade, even though few people could tell you why Britain was at war with Russia in the Crimea in 1854. The Victoria Cross was born in the Crimean War (cut from the metal of the Russian guns) and it is the Commonwealth's highest honor, even though the war was a total fiasco.

Only civies care about a win. Soldiers only see the soldiering.

Just cause the war is a loss, or a fiasco, doesn't mean you are forsaken by the Valkyrie, and barred from Valhalla.

At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them...
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby ceebee4 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:08 am

I love Bacevich on the topic of the utility of conflict in our present circumstance. He may be one of those rare commentators whose ideas would get almost unanimous assent in this forum.

(Love Moyers too, but I doubt he'd enjoy such general approval here.)
"It may be so, but it is not always so." --Shunryu Suzuki

"We're having a good time."
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby exposno1 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:27 am

"My fear is that we'll never run out of targets [for assassination]." --Bacevich

"Permanent open-ended war cannot be good for the country. Permanent open-ended war is an abdication of strategic thought" --Bacevich (channeling unchanging truths told by Sun Tzu 2,500 years ago)


It's good to see Moyers back on the air.
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby podm » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:34 am

What would it take to get men and women of such mental clarity to call the shots?
Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play - Heraclitus
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby exposno1 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 am

It would take tens of millions of voters to set aside their fears and let their newfound mental clarity demand an end to the nonsense.


. . . i.e., it isn't going to happen anytime soon. :|
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Re: Beyond War (2012) Moyers/Bacevich

Postby doc_loliday » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:42 pm

This was really great to watch. I just ordered one of his books. As sad as it sounds... It's refreshing to see adults speak reasonably about the big issues such as the wars in the middle east. It makes the travesty of our political systems appear all the more acute. Watch this, then watch a video of Santorum's nuttiness or Obama's prevarications. :shakinghead:
What is wrong with you people? - Dr. Youth
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